Category Creation: Insights from Community and Growth Leader
Explore successful strategies, case studies and common pitfalls for category creation using community-led growth. Learn from the experiences of community building in branding, growth, and category.
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I've been engaging with Gareth Wilson for some time, focusing on Community-led Growth, exploring case studies and frameworks. Our discussions have revolved around evolving topics like:
- Category creation
- The mindset of founders
- Customer preferences
- The role of communities as a driving force in Go-To-Market revolutions
About Gareth:
Gareth has over 15 years of experience in founding marketing roles at community-led startups, including Glitch, CodeSandbox, and Orbit, a community growth platform. He has witnessed the strengths and challenges of growing a business through community efforts. Additionally, Gareth has devoted hundreds of hours to studying the community-led strategies of the fastest-growing companies.
His insights and findings are shared through his newsletter, "Community Inc.," where he conducts deep dives into the product communities that power these companies. The aim of his newsletter is to demystify community-led growth and assist others in growing their businesses with community at the core.
In terms of his career progression, Gareth has held several key positions:
- Growth Lead at Command Bar
- Director of Brand and Content at Orbit
- Head of Growth at CodeSandBox
- Director of Marketing at Glitch
We discussed on various topics related to “Category Creation and Community-led Growth”
Exploring 15-Year Journey in Building Brands and Communities
Case Studies: Successfully Building and Elevating Communities
The Role of Communities in Category Creation and Their Impact on Growth, Branding, and Product Support
Can New Products in Emerging Categories Establish Communities or Can Communities Spark New Categories?
Analysis of Founders Integrating Community Early: Successes and Failures
Common Pitfalls in Building Category-Defining Communities
Evaluating the Effectiveness of Community-Led Growth as a Marketing Strategy
Alternatives to Community-Led Growth for Achieving Similar Outcomes
The Role of B2B Creators and Influencers in Community-Led Marketing and the Challenge of Attribution
Key Metrics for Founders, Marketers, and Builders in Developing Category-Defining Communities
Identifying Businesses and Founders Unsuited for Community-Led Marketing Approaches
Humorous and Unusual Encounters from Communities
Key Takeaways for Founders and Builders on Category Creation and Community-Led Growth Considerations
Let's look at the questions, concepts, insights, tips, and frameworks that we've discussed…
Exploring 15-Year Journey in Building Brands and Communities
Q. You have been building brands and communities for the past 15 years. Would like to understand a bit more about your journey?
Gareth: I started as a volunteer moderator on the site and eventually secured an internship, marking my initial exposure to the unique blend of community and business. This fusion has captivated my interest ever since.
Over the past 15 years, my career has predominantly focused on growth roles within community-centric businesses. Most notably, my experience at Orbit, a community growth platform, provided insights into a wide array of community programs and teams. This role allowed me to observe various challenges faced by both community teams and executives in the realm of community-led growth.
This experience inspired me to launch the Community Inc newsletter. Through this platform, I delve into these challenges and highlight exemplary instances of product communities excelling in their efforts.
Case Studies: Successfully Building and Elevating Communities
Q. Can you highlight a couple of examples of communities where you have, which basically you have built and how exactly you have taken them to the level they are now?
Gareth: Yes, I've been involved with a few developer-focused platforms, like Glitch and Code Sandbox. My involvement with Glitch began at its inception within Fog Creek Software, before it evolved into a separate business entity. From its initial concept, I was part of the journey, overseeing its market launch and fostering a vibrant developer community around the platform.
Eventually, Glitch was acquired. At Code Sandbox, which already had a thriving community when I joined, boasting millions of developers, we focused on integrating community examples directly into the platform. This approach served as a catalyst for product activation and usage, while also enabling community members to share their creations, thereby contributing to the platform's growth and business development.
The Role of Communities in Category Creation and Their Impact on Growth, Branding, and Product Support
Q. Excellent. Regarding the role of communities in category creation, what are your thoughts? We often consider communities in the context of growth, branding, and product support. However, is it possible for a new product in an emerging category to establish a community, or conversely, can a community itself give rise to a new category of problem statements?
Gareth: Yes, I believe community holds a unique power in building a category. It provides a central focal point, creating a movement where an audience and ecosystem can be sustained, which ultimately defines and defends the category.
There are four key phases in this process involving the community.
Spark - Initially, it starts with just an idea. A founder may perceive a problem differently and envision a new solution. They can begin forming a community around these ideas by creating and sharing content, attracting like-minded individuals. Initially, people rally around these ideas, but lack a dedicated space for their energy.
Movement - The second phase involves creating a movement. Here, content and community converge, possibly on a platform like Slack or through a series of events, providing a 'watering hole' for people to gather, discuss, and refine ideas.
Creating Category - In the third stage, the focus is on establishing the category. As the solution becomes clearer, you start building the product. The community acts as a sounding board, co-creating the product to ensure it addresses their needs, and helping generate word-of-mouth traction.
Defending Category - The fourth phase is about defending the established category, leading into ecosystem development. This phase combines content, community, product, and introduces elements like education through an academy or university setup, career support, developer community with an open API, and partnerships. This stage is about training people on your solution, providing career opportunities, and building a talent pool. It aims to sustain interest in your idea and foster knowledge sharing among different groups.
Many communities have successfully positioned themselves by first onboarding test users to define the solution, refining it, and then empowering the same audience to elevate it to the next level.
Can New Products in Emerging Categories Establish Communities or Can Communities Spark New Categories?
Q. Alright, could you provide examples of companies that have successfully utilized this approach, and their competitors who may not have even considered it?
Gareth: Certainly. In the early content and movement phase, Flip My Funnel by Terminus is an excellent example. They established the account-based marketing category. Flip My Funnel started as a series of regional conferences and a daily podcast, fostering discussions about the shortcomings of broad-based marketing and rallying around the emerging concepts of account-based marketing. Uniquely, Terminus made it vendor agnostic, inviting competitors to join as speakers and sponsors at the conference, focusing purely on establishing the category, essentially a community of practice with content and discussions as key building blocks for creating the Terminus product and establishing the ABM category.
For later phases of establishing and defending a category, there are numerous examples like HubSpot, Atlassian, and Salesforce. One standout is UiPath, which created the RPA (Robotic Process Automation) category. They made two notable moves in their enterprise-focused space: offering a free version of their product and establishing the UiPath Academy to train people in RPA development, thus creating a new career path. This strategy brought an influx of people into the space and led to the formation of a community around their product and educational platform, facilitating knowledge sharing and skill development, sustaining and substantiating the RPA category.
UiPath then added academic alliances, working with universities to make RPA development a viable career, and integrated use cases and a job board into their community. This strategy not only reduced support costs but also gave substance to the RPA concept, maintaining interest and propelling UiPath to a leadership position in the RPA category, often topping analyst reports.
Then there are businesses like Atlassian and Salesforce, which have open marketplaces around their platforms, supported by community through events and forums. This approach integrates partners, who are often key community members, helping create solutions and serving as a lead generation source, forming an ecosystem around the platform.
Salesforce, for example, runs career fairs, enabling organizations to find the talent needed for long-term investment in their platforms.
Analysis of Founders Integrating Community Early: Successes and Failures
Q. It seems globally we've observed several founders successfully integrating community early on and achieving significant results. Are there examples of companies that attempted this but didn’t execute it well? I'm not entirely certain about them not doing it right.
Gareth: Yes, there are pitfalls to be aware of in community-led approaches. One major challenge is that forming a community can be slow, posing a significant long-term investment, particularly challenging for startups with limited resources. When a startup has a constrained runway and needs to demonstrate traction and progress in a short time, the community-based approach can be tricky since it doesn't offer a direct 'dollar in, dollar out' result like sales and marketing techniques. The benefits of a community are more of a second-order effect of a thriving community, making it less predictable.
The issues often arise due to timing and the inability to drive progress within a certain timeframe or due to mismatched expectations between the community team's daily capabilities and what executives expect from the community. Especially for those with a background in sales and marketing, understanding the way the community delivers results requires a significant shift in mindset.
Common Pitfalls in Building Category-Defining Communities
Q. So, this is about the common pitfalls in community building, right? These are challenges faced by most community builders, whether they're focused on branding or growth. Are there any specific pitfalls to be mindful of when building a category-defining community?
Gareth: In my experience, successful and sustainable community creation involves three key elements, which I term the V2C framework.
First, you must create value for members; without it, they have no reason to engage.
Second, there must be value for the business, aligned with outcomes that matter, to justify ongoing investment in community programs.
Third, the community must offer a unique advantage over other solutions. If the goal is to increase leads or revenue, traditional marketing or sales techniques might be more efficient. The community approach should be chosen for specific reasons.
When these three elements are combined, they form a strong foundation for a successful community. However, they are not mere checkboxes; they exist on a continuum, and the execution of programs impacts the overall outcomes. I've yet to see a thriving community program that didn't incorporate these elements.
For example, the Salesforce Trailblazers community, now with millions of members and extensive programs, initially focused on support. Salesforce, experiencing rapid growth and high product demand, struggled with support demands. The Trailblazers community became an effective solution, offering 24/7 access to experts for personalized feedback. This approach delivered unique community advantages, solving member problems more efficiently than traditional support channels and saving Salesforce millions in monthly support costs while providing excellent customer service at scale. These factors, as relevant now as they were over 15 years ago, have helped the community go from strength to strength, as Salesforce's product has become more flexible and complex, maintaining the need for expert access. This example underscores how a community can effectively tick all three boxes of the V2C framework.
Evaluating the Effectiveness of Community-Led Growth as a Marketing Strategy
Q. Gareth, considering there are few communities that have successfully implemented business-focused strategies, most seem oriented towards hobbies, practice, or as company initiatives. Few have achieved notable success, and there are limited case studies from a community perspective. Many founders express doubt about the efficacy of community-led growth as a marketing strategy. Why do you believe community-led growth will become a prominent strategy, and why will it likely be more successful, given the past record of limited success?
Gareth: Right, the broader marketing and go-to-market trends are increasingly focusing on tapping into networks and personal connections. This shift is due to diminishing returns on ad spends, decreasing email open rates, content marketing saturation, and the challenge of breaking into SEO, especially with the influx of low-quality content generated by AI developments. These factors make it difficult for people to find reliable answers when considering vendors. Consequently, communities, where trusted opinions, insights, and feedback are shared, will become increasingly important and offer a competitive advantage.
The wider environment is ripe for community-led growth to become more integral. As for making it successful, the professionalization of the community space is key. Post-pandemic, there has been a surge in community adoption, but there remains a need for education and the establishment of best practices. There are still unresolved issues, such as effective measurement techniques and proving ROI. Advancements in frameworks and models for community engagement will likely lead to better outcomes and successes over time.
Alternatives to Community-Led Growth for Achieving Similar Outcomes
Q. In my interactions with both founders and marketers, they consistently mention that community-led growth is a significant long-term investment, and many are not prepared for that level of commitment. Following this, they often inquire about an alternative approach. Is there a way to achieve similar outcomes as community-led growth without directly owning a community?
Gareth: That's an intriguing point. Some organizations, rather than creating their own communities, find ways to leverage existing ones. This often involves sponsoring or partnering with other engagement-focused communities, which is one approach. Others pivot towards strategies like partnerships or product-led growth initiatives. These methods can also be effective in building audiences around a product or platform. There are indeed different ways to approach this; direct ownership of a community is not always necessary.
However, to achieve the kind of detailed reporting and deep understanding of data that many executives seek, owning a community can be advantageous. With a decentralized approach to community, it's challenging to delve beyond basic metrics like member counts and engagement levels on external platforms. Without owning the platform, integrating community data with product and marketing data becomes complicated. This integration is vital for comprehensively understanding the impact of community efforts. My concern with a more decentralized approach is that it might lack the concrete evidence required to support such initiatives over the long term.
The Role of B2B Creators and Influencers in Community-Led Marketing and the Challenge of Attribution
Q. Absolutely. I've suggested to some that they don't necessarily have to run their own activities; instead, they can collaborate with several B2B creators or influencers present in various communities where their target audience resides. Letting these influencers disseminate your brand's thought leadership in the community can effectively build influence around your brand and potentially generate leads. However, a major challenge that arises is the issue of attribution. It's difficult to measure the sources in marketing analytics, which is critical. This becomes a significant drawback for investment.
Regarding this, what are your thoughts on how even B2B creators or influencers, who are influencing community-led marketing, are shaping up, especially when metrics are not easily quantifiable for various reasons?
Gareth: Yes, there are successful cases where companies have adopted this strategy. Notion is a prime example. They have their own communities, like ones for ambassadors and champions, but the broader Notion community is largely user-driven. They boast large communities, such as one with over 300,000 members on Reddit, and region-specific groups on platforms like Facebook. These communities actively create and share content about Notion on platforms like YouTube and TikTok. This generates significant value for Notion, from raising awareness to facilitating educational content that supports the entire sales funnel.
However, when it comes to attribution, Notion adopts a hands-off approach. They accept the limitation of not having precise data. This strategy works for them, given their substantial organic success. They've decided to trust their instincts, acknowledging that they can't measure everything accurately, and choose not to interfere too much or attempt to seize control of these groups for better tracking.
This non-intrusive approach is deliberate. They aim to maintain the trust and sense of independence within these communities. While this strategy can be effective for some companies, most corporate cultures might not accommodate such a hands-off approach. There's often a tendency to capitalize on successful initiatives by investing more and building teams around them, which naturally leads to a desire for better tracking and attribution to understand the returns. This shift can alter the dynamics with creators and community members.
Ultimately, while this approach can be effective, it requires substantial buy-in from founders and executives, as well as a team-wide belief in its value, even without concrete data. Most organizations may find sustaining such an approach challenging in the long term.
Key Metrics for Founders, Marketers, and Builders in Developing Category-Defining Communities
Q. When it comes to founders, marketers, and community builders, what should they continually monitor and identify as areas for improvement while developing category-defining communities for their brands? What metrics are crucial for them to measure?
Gareth: Right, it's essential to refer back to the V2C framework I mentioned earlier. Firstly, it's crucial to measure whether members are deriving value from the community's activities. This can be assessed by observing engagement on the platform, return rates, and conducting surveys among community members.
For the business, the value is case-specific. Start with metrics that either directly or indirectly reflect the desired outcomes. For instance, if there's low engagement or high churn in the community, it indicates a lack of value for members. Similarly, without clear demonstration of the community's value, questions regarding ROI and further investment will arise.
Addressing this involves using metrics relevant to each department within the organization. If working with marketing, focus on metrics they value like lead counts and conversion rates. Demonstrating the community's impact on these specific metrics is more effective than trying to correlate community engagement with broader marketing outcomes.
Community's unique strength lies in its cross-functional benefits. It doesn’t just support community objectives; it positively impacts marketing, sales, talent acquisition, and more. Measuring its impact on each function individually offers a sustainable approach.
The V2C framework guides what to measure. A common question I encounter is whether one is suitable for a community, referring to concepts like 'business community fit' or 'founder community fit'.
Identifying Founder-Community fit
Q. Which types of businesses, founders, or builders do you think are not well-suited for a community-led marketing approach?
Gareth: Actually, most startups are probably not a good fit for community-led marketing. This is especially true if they have specific timelines to achieve certain results, as community building can be a slower process. Also, without founder buy-in, creating a sustainable program becomes challenging. Successful examples like Notion, Atlassian, UI Path, and Salesforce all had strong founder support from the beginning.
Community-led approaches work exceptionally well with organizations that have a product-led growth strategy, particularly those offering free plans and aiming for broad-based marketing. Communities can significantly support and enhance these efforts.
Products that people actively want to share, like Notion and Canva, also benefit greatly from community-led strategies. In such cases, communities become an invaluable asset.
However, beyond these scenarios – uniquely shareable products, category creation, or strong product-led growth strategies – most other organizations should probably not invest heavily in community-led approaches. The timeframes required for seeing results and the long-term commitment necessary for community building might not align with their immediate goals and needs.
Humorous and Unusual Encounters from Communities
Q. Have you encountered any humorous or unusual examples in your experiences with people inquiring about family-related growth and their odd expectations from the community?
Gareth: Yes, there are always intriguing and sometimes odd anecdotes related to community dynamics. For instance, in the Strava community, known for tracking activities like cycling and running, members started engaging in what's called Strava art or GPS art. They would intentionally plot their routes in specific patterns, creating images on the map when tracked. Examples include making a snowman over the scale of London or forming bicycle shapes. This involves starting and stopping the tracker strategically to create these unique "strokes" on the map. It's fascinating how such unique and strange behaviors can spontaneously develop within a community.
Key Takeaways on Category Creation and Community-Led Growth Considerations
Q. In summary, Gareth, what key points would you emphasize to founders and builders regarding category creation businesses and the consideration of community-led growth?
Gareth: Community building doesn't have to be your starting point; it can be incorporated at any stage.
Four Phases of Category Building:
Not necessarily sequential.
Example: Salesforce integrated community later in their journey, already being a successful, public company with significant revenue.
Starting Community Building:
It's never too late to begin building a community.
Essential to align community efforts with member and business needs.
Community should offer unique advantages, not just follow trends or as a last resort.
Long-Term Investment:
Building a community is a long-term commitment.
Benefits of a community mature over time, not immediately.
Challenges in Category Creation:
Involves various tactics beyond community, like awareness, analyst relations, and partnerships.
Requires a lengthy and dedicated journey.
Resources for Founders:
Case studies of successful communities (UiPath, Atlassian, Salesforce) available for reference.
Helpful for founders to evaluate if this approach suits their needs.
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